RWANDA: URUBANZA RWA MADAME VICTOIRE INGABIRE UMUHOZA
IKIGANIRO KU RUBANZA RWA MADAME VICTOIRE INGABIRE UMUHOZA
RADIYO ITAHUKA
TARIKI YA 05 KANAMA 2013
RADIYO ITAHUKA
TARIKI YA 05 KANAMA 2013
Joseph Bukeye, Komiseri Ushinzwe Ubukangurambaga muri FDU-Inkingi
Q. Tubanze twibutse abatwumva. Harya urwo rubanza rwatangiye ryari mu rukiko rukuru rwa Kigali ? Victoire yaregwaga iki ?
R. Madame Victoire yafashwe bwa mbere tariki ya 21/04/2010, amaze amezi atatu gusa ageze muRwanda. Icyo gihe yaregwaga ibyaha bitatu aribyo: ibikorwa by'iterabwoba, ingengabitekerezo ya génocide, guhakana génocide no gukwirakwiza impuha.
Q. Kuba madame Victoire yarajuriye byatewe n'iki ? Ni iki atishimiye mu mikirize y'urubanza mu rukiko rukuru rwamuburanishije?
R. Mu mikirize yarwo urukiko rukuru rwamuhanaguyeho ibyaha byose yari yarezwe n'ubushinjacyaha, uretse kimwe cy'ibikorwa by'iterabwoba urukiko rwahinduyemo icyaha cyo kugambana. Gusa icyatangaje ni uko urukiko rwarenze ku birego rwari rwashyikirijwe rukiyongereraho ikindi cyo gupfobya genocide. Nkaba nakwibutsa ko haba mu ibazwa imbere ya police, haba imbere y'ubushinjacyaha cyangwa mu rukiko, madame Victoire ntiyigeze abazwa iby'iki cyaha gishya.
Q. Bikaba rero ari byo byatumye madame Victoire Ingabire ajurira?
R. Si ibyo gusa. Madame Victoire Ingabire ananenga uburyo iryo tegeko rihana ingengabitekerezo ya genocide ryakoreshejwe bamucira igihano cy'akamama cy'imyaka umunani. Mwibuke ko madame Ingabire yari yarashyikirije urukiko rukuru ikibazo avuga ko iryo tegeko ritubahiriza itegeko nshinga. Mu buryo budafututse urukiko rw'ikirenga rwari rwavuze ko nta nenge rubona muri iryo tegeko. Nyamara muri iyo minsi, ministre Karugarama wari ushinzwe ubutabera, yahamije ko iryo tegeko rifite inenge ndetse anasaba inteko y'abadepite kurisubiramo. Aha umuntu akaba yakwibaza uburyo ubucamanza bwo mu Rwanda bukora.
Ikindi madame Ingabire yinubiye mu mikirize y'uru rubanza ni ukumuhambiraho umutwe w'ingabo atazi. Byaje no kugaragara ko uwo mutwe utabaho.
Q. Twumva ariko ko ngo n'ubushinjacyaha bwari bwajuriye ?
R. Nibyo koko ubushinjacyaha bwari bwajuriye. Bwo ariko bukaba bwarinubiraga ko ngo imyaka 8 madame Victoire yakatiwe yari mike, ugereranije n'ibyaha bwari bwamureze. Bwageze n'aho bugereranya ibirego bye n'ibya Mushayidi bukavuga ko butumva ukuntu atakatiwe gufungwa burundu.
Q. Reka tugaruke mu bujurire imbere y'urukiko rw'ikirenga. Iburana ryatangiye ryari ?
R. Urukiko rw'ikirenga rwatangiye kumva ababurana tariki ya 25 mars 2013. Icyo gihe muribuka ko urubanza rwari rwitabiriwe n'abarwanashyaka benshi. Kubera ko ubutegetsi butashakaga ko bigaragara ko madame Victoire Ingabire afite abantu bamuri inyuma bangana gutyo, bwahisemo gukwirakwiza imishwaro abo bantu. Ndetse Umunyamabanga Mukuru w'agateganyo w'ishyaka FDU-Inkingi, Bwana Sylvain Sibomana nibwo yafashwe akorerwa ibya mfura mbi kugeza ubwo akutse amenyo. Na n'ubu aracyari mu munyururu aburagizwa.
Q. Madame Victoire yifashe ate imbere y'urwo rukiko ? Uko guhutaza abamushyigikiye ntibymutesheje umutwe cyane cyane ko abamurinda banamubujije gusuhuza abari aho nk'uko bisanzwe ?
R. Madame Ingabire yabimbuye ubujurire ageza ku rukiko ibibazo by'ibanze (Questions de procédure):
1) Ububasha bw'urukiko rukuru mu guhindura amasezerano u Rwanda rwagiranye na RDC ku byerekeranye n'itahuka mu mahoro kubahoze ari abarwanyi muri FDLR.
Bariya basirikare batatu bamushinja aribo : Uwumuremyi Vital, Nditurende Tharcisse na Karuta JMV, akaba yibaza ukuntu bakurikiranwa ku bintu bakoze muri Congo ku buryo bunyuranije n'ayo masezerano. Ku baba batazi igikubiye muri ayo masezerano, yavugaga ko abarwanyi ba FDLR bafata icyemezo cyo gutaha bashyize hasi intwaro batazakurikiranwa ku byaha baba barakoreye hanze y'igihugu, uretse ibyaha bijyanye na génocide n'ibyaha by'intambara cyangwa ibyaha by'inyokamuntu (crimes de guerre et crime contre l'humanité).
2) Ububasha bw'urukiko rukuru mu kutubahiriza icyemezo cy'urukiko rwo mu Buholandi n'amasezerano yakozwe hagati y'u Rwanda n'Ubuholandi m'uburyo ibyo bimenyetso byagombaga gukoreshwa.
Aha naho nakwibutsa abumva Radio Itahuka ko igihe inzego z'ubucamanza z'igihugu cy'Ubuholandi zoherezaga bimwe mu bintu byari byavanywe mu isakwa ryakorewe aho madame Victoire yabaga mu Buholandi, u Rwanda rwari rwemeye ko rutazabikoresha mu rubanza uretse ku byaha by'iterabwoba. Siko byagenze kuko ahubwo zimwe mu nyandiko zakoreshejwe mu kumuhamya icyaha cyo gupfobya génocide.
Q. Kuki madame Ingabire atashakaga ko inyandiko zose zavuye iwe zikoreshwa uko ubucamanza bw'u Rwanda bubishatse ? Haba hari ibyo yashakaga guhisha ?
R. Nta kintu kirimo kidasanzwe. Gusa ubuzima gatozi bw'umuntu ntibuvogerwa. Ni ihame rikomeye. Twese mu ngo zacu tugira icyo bita « intimité » tutifuza ko ivogerwa. Madame Victoire nawe ni umuntu ukeneye « intimité ». Ikindi ni ikibazo cy'irindi hame. Iyo ugiranye amasezerano n'umuntu urayubahiriza. Inteko ishinga amategeko y'ubuholandi yari yatanze ibintu bigomba kubahirizwa kugira ngo leta yabo igeze k'u Rwanda ibyo bimenyetso. Izo ngingo zigomba kubahirizwa, bitaba ibyo u Rwanda rugasobanura impamvu rutabikoze.
Q. None se ntacyo madame Ingabire yavuze ku bujurire bw'ubushinjacyaha ?
R. Birumvikana ko nta kuntu yari kubuca iruhande cyane cyane ko ubushinjacyaha bwamusabiraga gufungwa burundu bumwegekaho urusyo.
Madame Ingabire yatangiriye ku cyaha y'ingengabitekerezo dore ko ari cyo cyari cyafashe umwanya munini mu kirego cy'ubushinjacyaha no mu bujururire. Mu kirego ubushinjacyaha bwari bwatanze ingingo zirenga 10 ngo zerekana ko madame Ingabire icyo cyaha kimuhama. Gusa kubera ko urukiko rukuru rwari rwemeje ko ingingo 2 ari zo zonyine zubahirije amategeko, madame Ingabire yagize icyo avuga kuri izo ngingo gusa, arizo :
- 1. Amahame ya FDU-Inkingi (charte constitutive)
- 2. Ijambo madame Ingabire yavugiye ku Gisozi
Kuri izo ngingo ebyiri madame Ingabire akaba yaranenze urukiko ndetse n'ubushinjacyaha kuba bwaribanze kubyo bita mu matekegeko "doctrines" (inyandiko z'abahanga). Akibaza impamvu badakoresha amategeko y'u Rwanda. Keretse niba nabo batakiyemera. Yatanze ingero nyinshi.
Ubusanzwe mu mikirize y'imanza hakoreshwa mbere na mbere amategeko. Iyo adahagije hakoreshwa ibyo bita "jurisprudence" aribyo umuntu yagenekereza akabyita "uko imanza zisa n'urwo zaba zarakijijwe". Iyo ibyo byose bidahagije bitabaza "doctrines", umuntu yavuga ko ari inyandiko z'abazobereye mu mategeko. Mu rubanza rwa madame Victoire siko byagenze rero.
Q. Ikibazo se cyo gukurikiza inyandiko z'abahanga ni ikihe, cyane cyane ko ari abahanga nyine?
R. Biroroshye gusubiza iki kibazo iyo urebye abantu biyita abahanga ku kibazo cya genocide yabereye mu Rwanda muri 1994 ukuntu bangana n'ukuntu bivuguruzanya. Buri wese yiyita umuhanga ku buryo uhatera umutwe. Haramutse hari abahanga batabogamye nta kibazo. Gusa iyo ukoresheje uwitwa umuhanga ariko abogamye birumvikana ko biyobya ubucamanza. Niko byagenze.
Q. Ibyo turabyumvise ariko ntacyo uratubwira kuri ziriya ngingo ebyiri ari zo Amahame ya FDU-Inkingi na discours yo ku Gisozi. Abatwumva bakeneye gusobanukirwa.
R. Ku mahame ya FDU-Inkingi, ubushinjacyaha buvuga ko madame Victoire Ingabire apfobya genocide ngo kuko FDU yaba yarabishyize mu mahame remezo yayo. Ndetse abambari b'ubutegetsi bavuze ko ngo mu ndahiro abantu binjira muri FDU bagomba gukora, ibyo kwemera "double genocide" byaba birimo. Icya mbere, nta ndahiro tugira muri FDU-Inkingi. Baribeshye bakeka ko turi FPR-Inkotanyi. Ushaka kujya muri FDU ashyikirizwa amahame remezo y'ishyaka; yayemera tukamwohereza mu rwego rw'ibanze, rushobora kumuha ikarita y'ubunyamuryango cg rukayimwima. Ibyo kurahiza abantu ni ikinyoma cyambaye ubusa.
Icya kabiri muri FDU twemera mu buryo butaziguye génocide yakorewe ubwoko bw'abatutsi. Aho dutaniye na FPR ni uko twemera ko hari abahutu bishwe, kandi benshi. Twemera kandi ko abo bahutu bishwe na bamwe bari mu ngabo za FPR. Si twe twenyine tubivuga. Tugasaba ko ibi byaha byakurikiranwa nk'uko byasabwe n'abandi benshi ndetse na LONU (Mapping report). Ibi ntaho bihuriye na "double genocide". None se FPR yakwihandagaza ikavuga ko nta bahutu bishwe? Niba ari byo ishaka ntabwo tuzabikora.
Q. Ibyo koko birumvikanye, cyane cyane ko FDU-Inkingi nk'ishyaka itigeze iregwa icyo cyaha, haba hanze y'u Rwanda, haba mu Rwanda. Naho se kuri discours madamu Ingabire yavuze ku Gisozi?
R. Aha naho ni andi mariganya. Ubushinjacyaha bwabanje kwitwaza ko kuvuga byonyine ko hari abanyarwanda bo mu bwoko bw'abahutu bishwe na bamwe bo mu ngabo za FPR ari ugupfobya génocide. Hagati mu rubanza ubushinjacyaha bwavuze ko kuba byaravugiwe kuri mémorial yahariwe abatutsi ari ryo shyano. Hanyuma buvuga ko irindi shyano ari ugukoresha ijambo « génocide » ku bahutu bapfuye kandi nta rukiko rwigeze rubyemeza.
Biragaragara ko uku guhindura imvugo ari ukubura uko bagira. Icya mbere ntabwo madame Victoire yagiye ku Gisozi ajyanywe no kuvuga iriya discours. Yari azinduwe no kwibuka abanyarwanda bazize génocide. Kandi byari bimuri ku mutima. Abanyamakuru bamubajije ikibazo yasubije uko umutima nama we umutegeka.
Ibyo yavuze ni ukuri kwambaye ubusa. Nta bwiyunge nyabwo buzagerwaho mu Rwanda, igihe cyose buri wese atazumva akababaro k'undi. Wabyita génocide wabyita ukundi, ikibazo cy'abahutu bishwe bazira ubwoko bwabo kigomba kuzafuturwa. Kurenzaho bizahora bikurura urwikekwe n'inzangano mu bana b'u Rwanda. Ntaho madame Victoire yaciye inka amabere abivuga.
Madame Ingabire ariko akaba yarasobanuye ko atigeze na rimwe ashaka gushinyagurira abanyarwanda bo mu bwoko bw'abatutsi avuga ayo magambo.
Q. Mu yandi magambo rero madamu Ingabire yemera génocide yakorewe abatutsi ndetse na FDU-Inkingi irayemera ?
R. Rwose nta shiti. Bitavuga ariko ko babindikiranya ubwicanyi bwakozwe na zimwe mu ngabo za FPR. Ariko kuki FPR yakwigira indakoreka ? Ubu se ushobora kubwira umuntu mwene wabo akiri mu muringoti haruguru y'urugo ko uwamwishe ari indakorekwa, ko azahama aho mu muringoti adashyinguwe mu cyubahiro? Tugomba kugira umuco mwiza wo kwubaha abacu bishwe nta vangura.
Q. Ibyo ndakeka ko bireba icyaha cyo gupfobya génocide. Hari ariko n'icyaha cy'iterabwoba.
R. Mu isomwa ry'urubanza, urukiko rukuru rwari rwagihinduyemo « Kugambana (conspiration)». Gusa naho harimo urujijo. Mu iburanishwa uwunganira madame Victoire yabajije urukiko uwo bagambanye arabura kuko madame Victoire Ingabire ari we wenyine waregwaga icyo cyaha. Ndetse ni we wenyine cyahamye. Umuntu se agambana wenyine? Mu mikirize ariko byaje kugaragara ngo ko madame Victoire Ingabire yaba yaragambanye na majoro Uwumuremyi Vital. Kuki rero byagizwe ibanga mu iburanishwa ? Kuki madame Victoire Ingabire atahawe urubuga ngo yisobanure ndetse abe yahuzwa na Vital imbere y'urukiko buri muntu yisobanure (confrontation)?
Q. Uko kugambana ahubwo twe twakekaga ko kureba bariya basirikare bose bahoze muri FDLR.
R. Ibyo biragarura ikibazo cy'uriya mutwe mpimbano witwa CDF (Coalition of Defense Forces) ngo waba warabonye inkunga ya madame Victoire Ingabire.
Umuntu yakivugabo ibintu bibiri :
Icya mbere, byaragaragaye ko uriya mutwe utigeze ubaho. Abari babivuze imbere y'urukiko rukuru bose bisubiyeho basobanura ko utigeze ubaho, kandi ni nabyo. Nta kindi kimenyetso kigeze kigaragaza ko wabayeho.
Icya kabiri madame Ingabire yibajije, ni ukuntu yahamwa ko yatanze amafranga yo kugura intwaro z'umutwe w'ingabo utabaho. Iki ni ikindi kinyoma.
Q. None se uko kwisubiraho kw'abamushinjaga bahoze muri FDLR byaba byaraturutse he ?
R. Sinabyita ukwisubiraho ahubwo nabyita ukuvugisha ukuri. Barashutswe bavuga amatakira ngoyi kuko bari bafungiwe Mutobo igihe batanze ubwo buhamya. Habonetse umutanga buhamya wabyemeje. Ubushinjacyaha bwakoze iyo bwabaga ngo bumuteshe agaciro, ariko yerekanye uburiganya bwose bwakorewe i Mutobo.
Q. Uwo mutanga buhamya se kuki atari yaragaragaye mu rukiko rukuru ?
R. Mu by'ukuri uwo mutangabuhamya yari azwi kandi yagombaga gutanga ubuhamya mu rukiko rukuru. Gusa igihe madame Victoire yavaga mu rubanza akanasaba abamwunganira kuruvamo, ntibyari bigishobotse ko uwo mutanga buhamya aza mu rukiko. Ariko urukiko rwari ruzi ko ahari.
Q. Igishya se yazanye ni ikihe ?
R. Yemeje ko umugambi wo guhimbira madame Victoire Ingabire ibyaha wapangiwe i Mutobo ndetse atanga ibimenyetso simusiga. Ubushinjacyaha bwagerageze uko bushoboye kumunyomoza , ariko byabaye iby'ubusa. Ndetse n'iterabwoba ryarakoreshejwe ariko ntacyo ryatanze.
Q. Umuntu akwumvise yavuga rero ko madame Ingabire yashoboye kwambika ubusa ibirego byose aregwa ?
R. Kugira ngo abatwumva bibabere bigufi, madame Victoire yari yarahamijwe ibyaha bibiri aribyo : « Ugupfobya génocide (minimisation du génocide) », no « kugambana (conspiration) ».
Ku cyaha cyo gupfobya génocide, urukiko rwari rwitwaje discours madamu Ingabire yavugiye ku Gisozi. Madamu Ingabire yatanze ibimenyetso bihagije ko nta kintu kirimo gipfobya génocide. Ndetse naho bavugaga ko udashobora gukoresha ijambo rya génocide nta rukiko rwabyemeje, yibukije ko kuri urwo rwibutso hari inyandiko zivuga génocide yakorewe abantu bo mu gihugu cya Armenie kandi nta rukiko rwayemeje. Yanagarutse ku yindi nyandiko ivuga génocide y'abantu bo mu bwoko bwa Herero bwo muri Afurika y'amajy'epho nayo ikaba nta rukiko rwemewe rwigeze ruyemeza. Biragaragara rero ko nta cyaha cyakozwe avuga ko abahutu bishwe bagomba kwibukwa nabo, kabone n'iyo yabivugira ku rwibutso rwagenewe abatutsi. Nkeka ko abatutsi bari bakwiye kwumva ko iyi mvugo itagamije kubatoneka.
Ku cyaha cyo kugambana, nacyo cyataye agaciro igihe umutwe w'ingabo bamushinja utigeze ubaho; ndetse n'abaregwaga ko bari bawuri ku isonga bakaba barabivuze.
Q. N'ubwo bigaragara ko ibirego byose bisa n'ibyataye agaciro ntawamenya uko urubanza ruzacibwa tariki ya mbere Ukuboza 2013. Madame Victoire Ingabire yaba yiteguye kwakira ate imikirize y'urubanza ?
R. Biragoye gusubiriza umuntu mutari kumwe. Ariko nkurikije uko muzi, n'ibyo mbyirwa n'abahura nawe buri munsi, nakwemeza ko madamu Ingabire ajya mu Rwanda yari yiteguye ibigeragezo byose. Imyaka itatu amaze ari muri gereza yerekanye ko atari umuntu ujegera gutyo gusa. Ikindi, mu butumwa yakomeje kutugezaho abunyujije kubo bavugana, ntiyahwemye kutugaragariza ko ugufungwa nako ari uruhare mu rugamba rwa démocratie buri munyarwanda ushaka impinduka ya démocratie agomba kwitegura kunyuramo. Ugufungwa kwe kandi kukaba kwarerekanye isura nyayo y'ubutegetsi bwa FPR-Inkotanyi bwirirwaga buvuga ko ntawe bwabujije gukora politique mu gihugu.
Ikindi madame Ingabire ahora vuga ni uko nta bwoko bumwe ubwo aribwo bwose bushobora kwiharira umurage w'u Rwanda cyangwa ngo buvuge ko ari bwo bufite umuti w'ibibazo u Rwanda rufite. Niba hagomba kuba impinduka ya démocratie, izagerwaho ari uko amoko yose agize u Rwanda abigizemo uruhare.
Nkeka rero ko madame Victoire Ingabire yiteguye gukomeza urugamba ariho rwa démocratie uko imikirize y'urubanza rwe yagenda kose.
Q. Mu kurangiza ubutwumwa se wageza ku barwanashyaka no kubatwumva bose ni ubuhe ?
R. Nabasaba gukomeza kugirira icyizere umushinga dufite wo kugera ku mitegekere ibereye abanyarwanda bose no kwemera ko iyo nzira ishobora kuba irimo amahwa. Nabasaba kandi kwemera ko iyo nzira ishobora kuba ari ndende. Nkanabasaba gushishikariza abandi kudusanga, kuko tudashobora kwemera ko akarengane kari mu gihugu cyacu gakomeza. Igihugu ntabwo ari akarima ka kanaka, igihugu ni icya twese. Kandi nidushyira hamwe twese tuzatsinda.
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